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	<title>Comments on: How to Beat Rails</title>
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	<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/</link>
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		<title>By: kenneth gonsalves</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-5238</link>
		<dc:creator>kenneth gonsalves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-5238</guid>
		<description>in the only known face-of between django and rails, django won handsomely. Google for snakesandrubies. And that was a long time back. Right now django is ahead of rails in everything but hype. And one very important reason is i18n - outside the english speaking countries, rails just cannot compete because of this. So no point asking people to take the &#039;best&#039; from each framework in order to wage war against a paper tiger. It&#039;s not going to happen anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in the only known face-of between django and rails, django won handsomely. Google for snakesandrubies. And that was a long time back. Right now django is ahead of rails in everything but hype. And one very important reason is i18n &#8211; outside the english speaking countries, rails just cannot compete because of this. So no point asking people to take the &#8216;best&#8217; from each framework in order to wage war against a paper tiger. It&#8217;s not going to happen anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: philosophersam</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-4004</link>
		<dc:creator>philosophersam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-4004</guid>
		<description>I love it when programming language evangelists proclaim things without any arguments.  I guess my argument against Python is giving white-space a meaning in the language.  My initial and current reaction that is &quot;Blah!&quot;  I find Ruby to be more interesting and enjoyable to learn....but I would love to be shown why I&#039;m wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it when programming language evangelists proclaim things without any arguments.  I guess my argument against Python is giving white-space a meaning in the language.  My initial and current reaction that is &#8220;Blah!&#8221;  I find Ruby to be more interesting and enjoyable to learn&#8230;.but I would love to be shown why I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: random8r</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3856</link>
		<dc:creator>random8r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3856</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s kinda funny...

You&#039;re like &quot;Change Python&#039;s frameworks so they follow Rails&quot; because you seem to like the language and the speed and stuff like that.

Regardless of the initial disclaimer, you&#039;re very biased towards Python (which is fine, I&#039;m just pointing it out).

I personally have a strong distaste for any language which imbibes white space with meaning. It strikes me as ugly when I use it. But, hey, I&#039;m a smalltalker at heart, and Ruby is way more smalltalkish than Python.

This aside, the real reason I&#039;m posting is to help you out...

You&#039;re missing the main point of why Rails is so successful. It&#039;s the same reason that Apple, Dyson or even Nintendo are so successful.

We, as REAL creators, spend far less time looking around at the competition, and spend time work on creating something that we feel and think is a beautiful thing. There can be no competition for this, because it&#039;s inappropriate to compare.

If you&#039;re not following your own heart - if you&#039;re following someone else&#039;s lead, then you can&#039;t help but not know where you&#039;re going. You&#039;re being led by others, then people are not going to become truly enpassioned about your product, however many bells and whistles there are on it.

The reason the Python community has no &quot;Rails&quot; at the moment is that no one has yet created something that they truly love to use and that is a simple, elegant solution for Web Development.

The reason all of these aforementioned communities have such enpassioned userbases is that they love the things. They&#039;re literally created out of love, and so they have love in them. They&#039;re therefore lovely to use. :)

- Random8r</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s kinda funny&#8230;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re like &#8220;Change Python&#8217;s frameworks so they follow Rails&#8221; because you seem to like the language and the speed and stuff like that.</p>
<p>Regardless of the initial disclaimer, you&#8217;re very biased towards Python (which is fine, I&#8217;m just pointing it out).</p>
<p>I personally have a strong distaste for any language which imbibes white space with meaning. It strikes me as ugly when I use it. But, hey, I&#8217;m a smalltalker at heart, and Ruby is way more smalltalkish than Python.</p>
<p>This aside, the real reason I&#8217;m posting is to help you out&#8230;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re missing the main point of why Rails is so successful. It&#8217;s the same reason that Apple, Dyson or even Nintendo are so successful.</p>
<p>We, as REAL creators, spend far less time looking around at the competition, and spend time work on creating something that we feel and think is a beautiful thing. There can be no competition for this, because it&#8217;s inappropriate to compare.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not following your own heart &#8211; if you&#8217;re following someone else&#8217;s lead, then you can&#8217;t help but not know where you&#8217;re going. You&#8217;re being led by others, then people are not going to become truly enpassioned about your product, however many bells and whistles there are on it.</p>
<p>The reason the Python community has no &#8220;Rails&#8221; at the moment is that no one has yet created something that they truly love to use and that is a simple, elegant solution for Web Development.</p>
<p>The reason all of these aforementioned communities have such enpassioned userbases is that they love the things. They&#8217;re literally created out of love, and so they have love in them. They&#8217;re therefore lovely to use. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>- Random8r</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3480</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3480</guid>
		<description>I disagree about your ordering of Unicode implementations.

It&#039;s nice that in Java every string is Unicode.  Or rather, Unicode 3.0.  If you want to support anything outside of the BMP, you practically have to implement half of UTF-16 decoding yourself.  You need 2 &quot;char&quot;s to represent some Unicode code points -- not fun.

Python is much nicer, because you get any Unicode character (all 21 bits) in a string.  There&#039;s also a str (ASCII) type, but you can simply skip it for now.  (In Python 3, this will be fixed.)

I&#039;d summarize the difference as &quot;In Java, you get Unicode 3 for free, and it&#039;s a lot of work to support Unicode 5&quot; versus &quot;In Python, you get ASCII for free, and it&#039;s little-or-no work to support Unicode 5&quot;.

On the top, though, are Lisp implementations like SBCL, which combine the best features of Java (every character and string is Unicode-capable) and Python (full 21-bit characters for free).  This isn&#039;t surprising: Lisp predates ASCII.  :-)

I&#039;ve not done any Unicode work in Tcl or Ruby yet, so I can&#039;t speak to those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree about your ordering of Unicode implementations.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice that in Java every string is Unicode.  Or rather, Unicode 3.0.  If you want to support anything outside of the BMP, you practically have to implement half of UTF-16 decoding yourself.  You need 2 &#8220;char&#8221;s to represent some Unicode code points &#8212; not fun.</p>
<p>Python is much nicer, because you get any Unicode character (all 21 bits) in a string.  There&#8217;s also a str (ASCII) type, but you can simply skip it for now.  (In Python 3, this will be fixed.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d summarize the difference as &#8220;In Java, you get Unicode 3 for free, and it&#8217;s a lot of work to support Unicode 5&#8243; versus &#8220;In Python, you get ASCII for free, and it&#8217;s little-or-no work to support Unicode 5&#8243;.</p>
<p>On the top, though, are Lisp implementations like SBCL, which combine the best features of Java (every character and string is Unicode-capable) and Python (full 21-bit characters for free).  This isn&#8217;t surprising: Lisp predates ASCII.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not done any Unicode work in Tcl or Ruby yet, so I can&#8217;t speak to those.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Johannsen</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3307</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Johannsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-3307</guid>
		<description>Time keeps moving =)

Another Python ORM for you to play with from the guys that brought us Ubuntu, Canonical.

https://storm.canonical.com/

Clean and lightweight API offers a short learning curve and long-term maintainability providing the following features:

o Storm lets you efficiently access and update large datasets by allowing you to formulate complex queries spanning multiple tables using Python.
o Storm allows you to fallback to SQL if needed (or if you just prefer), allowing you to mix &quot;old school&quot; code and ORM code.
o Storm handles composed primary keys with ease (no need for surrogate keys).
o Storm handles relationships between objects even before they were added to a database.
o Storm works well with existing database schemas.
o ...and more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time keeps moving =)</p>
<p>Another Python ORM for you to play with from the guys that brought us Ubuntu, Canonical.</p>
<p><a href="https://storm.canonical.com/" rel="nofollow">https://storm.canonical.com/</a></p>
<p>Clean and lightweight API offers a short learning curve and long-term maintainability providing the following features:</p>
<p>o Storm lets you efficiently access and update large datasets by allowing you to formulate complex queries spanning multiple tables using Python.<br />
o Storm allows you to fallback to SQL if needed (or if you just prefer), allowing you to mix &#8220;old school&#8221; code and ORM code.<br />
o Storm handles composed primary keys with ease (no need for surrogate keys).<br />
o Storm handles relationships between objects even before they were added to a database.<br />
o Storm works well with existing database schemas.<br />
o &#8230;and more.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Hoscilo</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Hoscilo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Maybe something has changed in the topic of URL dispatching/resolving in Django that i&#039;m not aware of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe something has changed in the topic of URL dispatching/resolving in Django that i&#8217;m not aware of.</p>
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		<title>By: Vernon</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Vernon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-187</guid>
		<description>Just a small comment to Adam Hoscilo re Django regular expression URLs: I believe the opposite of what you say is true, the URLs reside in their own file and simply point to the view functions (or controllers in normal MVC-speak), and are not in the templates or controllers.  If anything the Django URLs provide the maximum in flexibility out of the available options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a small comment to Adam Hoscilo re Django regular expression URLs: I believe the opposite of what you say is true, the URLs reside in their own file and simply point to the view functions (or controllers in normal MVC-speak), and are not in the templates or controllers.  If anything the Django URLs provide the maximum in flexibility out of the available options.</p>
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		<title>By: eduardo</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>eduardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-171</guid>
		<description>I read it three times. Excellent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read it three times. Excellent!</p>
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		<title>By: Giles Bowkett</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Giles Bowkett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-169</guid>
		<description>This is kind of weird. If you can see how to do it, you should do it. Nothing rallies people behind you like actually doing something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is kind of weird. If you can see how to do it, you should do it. Nothing rallies people behind you like actually doing something.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Hoscilo</title>
		<link>http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Hoscilo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/how-to-beat-rails/#comment-164</guid>
		<description>&quot;Make Ajax integration easy. Turbogears does this brilliantly with MochiKit; Django doesn’t do this at all. However, Rails still beats them both with Script.aculo.us tools.&quot;
Pylons has almost all Rails WebHelpers implemented: http://pylonshq.com/WebHelpers/module-index.html

&quot;Use the routing systems of Pylons and Django.&quot;
the Routes are much better solution than Django&#039;s URLs. Specially for maintaining existing urls. In Django you have to hardcode URLs in templates or controllers.

&quot;Get the publicity machine going.&quot;
I think this point is crucial, especially in Pylons case. Marketing is very important - don&#039;t underestimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Make Ajax integration easy. Turbogears does this brilliantly with MochiKit; Django doesn’t do this at all. However, Rails still beats them both with Script.aculo.us tools.&#8221;<br />
Pylons has almost all Rails WebHelpers implemented: <a href="http://pylonshq.com/WebHelpers/module-index.html" rel="nofollow">http://pylonshq.com/WebHelpers/module-index.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Use the routing systems of Pylons and Django.&#8221;<br />
the Routes are much better solution than Django&#8217;s URLs. Specially for maintaining existing urls. In Django you have to hardcode URLs in templates or controllers.</p>
<p>&#8220;Get the publicity machine going.&#8221;<br />
I think this point is crucial, especially in Pylons case. Marketing is very important &#8211; don&#8217;t underestimate.</p>
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